Option to select a different dice system

12 Aug, '19
2sheepmachine

I had a game with only two sixes rolled the entire time. Right after another game where nearly no sixes were rolled. So it does seem like the rng is broken.

17 Aug, '19
bric22

I also feel like the dice rolling doesn't work great.

21 Aug, '19
dasdsa

1/2 online poker players thinks poker is rigged against them.

31 Aug, '19
Kliph

It seems like this happens all the time when playing in real life with actual dice too though. If the admins say it's truly random, I believe it. It's just the way the dice roll sometimes. If the odds came up exactly as often as they are expected to, that wouldn't be random.

20 Oct, '19
b

The best and I think only way to test this is to list roll distribution of ALL games over long time period. Then we can look past small sample size (i.e. games that you play in). Will add global roll distribution as new feature request. Would be interesting to see resources generated etc as well

25 Oct, '19
MK

Just played a game in which 10 was rolled ONCE the entire game, and 11 was never rolled. But 5 and 9 came up constantly. I understand probabilities, but the skew was kind of ridiculous.

12 Nov, '19
Esqarrouth

https://www.reddit.com/r/Colonist/comments/dncxqf/dice_rolls_over_10_games_629_rolls_total_only_the/

24 Nov, '19
Esqarrouth Admin Merged

https://www.reddit.com/r/Colonist/comments/dncxqf/dice_rolls_over_10_games_629_rolls_total_only_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Katan/comments/bwq42e/katanio_dice_randomness/

27 Nov, '19
player Merged

I don't think this tells the full story of whether the dice are truly random (or somewhat fairly distributed). Easily can have a game where 2 rolls 5 times and 9 doesn't roll until 80% of the way into the game. When those numbers roll is relevant to whether this game is working.

30 Dec, '19
Matias

The dice is working as it should. But random means you'll have games out of the ordinary. So while the average game will roll (statistically) more 4s than 2s and more 7s than 8s this won't be the case for most games. Most games will be random meaning that some numbers will be rolled more than expected taking away from numbers that are rolled less than expected.

This is normal and is also the experience you often have when playing the board game.

13 Jan, '20
Esqarrouth Admin

"HIRE SOME STATISTICIANS!!!" (suggested by xyz on 2020-01-13), including upvotes (1) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.

16 Jan, '20
Guy Incogneato

I don't know, it seems pretty rigged. Playing against a robot player, the robber always gets placed on my number, which then gets rolled 3 of the next 4 turns, then the bot moves the robber to a new number, and again, said new number gets rolled several times. All the while i get no new resources AND get all my existing ones stolen. I played a game where the 7's where 38 to 4 in favour of the robot player.

18 Jan, '20
Alex Bruski

It would be nice to have the option to "not have 7's rolled at all" and "not have unused hex numbers" roll either. Would speed up play with two player games and make for a friendlier game. I would also like a no robber option as well. That would allow no robber but still allow card loss with a 7 roll.
Having select-able options makes it available to have the choice to play the game the way you want to, just like you can do with a board game.

19 Jan, '20
player Merged

(and yes, I know how statistics work... and you can look at hundreds of roles to prove it "works" but when it takes 20-30 rolls for top numbers to appear once, something is out of balance.)

19 Jan, '20
Esqarrouth Admin

"BUG: Dice are crap." (suggested by player on 2020-01-19), including upvotes (1) and comments (1), was merged into this suggestion.

19 Jan, '20
player

Just played a game where 3 and 9 rolled zero (0) times the entire game. 10 rolled more than 6 or 8 (same game), 4 just as much as 6 and 8.

I think the problem here is if you look at too much data it looks like this RNG works, but on a game level is sucks. Just play a game where the dice roll abnormally for the first 10-20 rolls and the game balance is unrecoverable (it doesn't mean anything when what should be a common number suddenly rolls well in the last handful of turns)

03 Feb, '20
Alex Lau

You could try a sudo random. In the original Tetris, the prices where not truly random and was instead random in group of two sets. You can do something similar with having 2 sets of number pair in a normal distribution (is. 1-1, 1-2,...6-6) thrown in an list and have the game pull them out one by one and only refill the bag when it’s fully empty.

18 Feb, '20
player Merged

Just played a game where 4 and 10 dominated the game, and 7 rolled 1x (once!).

25 Feb, '20
Connor Merged

My experience with random dice rollers either on apps or just online has been very similar. The algorithms are awful. Nothing beats rolling the dice in real life.

16 Mar, '20
Esqarrouth

Links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Katan/comments/bwq42e/katanio_dice_randomness/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Colonist/comments/dncxqf/dice_rolls_over_10_games_629_rolls_total_only_the/

17 Mar, '20
hooah

Games where a roll dice don't happen happen in real life too. It sucks and is very frustrating when your 4/5/6 resource never happens and your entire strategy crumbles, but that's the game IRL too

19 Mar, '20
Alex Bruski Merged

I am working on getting balanced die rolls installed to alleviate the problems... just have patience. I do play 1 on 1 with the bots myself. It plays the same as 1 on 1 against good humans.

23 Mar, '20
HoldtheMayo

Not sure if this was mentioned already but does it seem to anyone that a number could not have been rolled all game but as soon as the robber is placed on it then it is rolled every other roll. I'm sure it's just coincidence but I feel like it happens more times than not.

23 Mar, '20
player Merged

Just wait until you play the games where 6, 7, 8 never rolls and 4 and 10 roll repetitively, ugh. It's not like I hate 8 rolling a lot (which hurts if you aren't on it), it's when the other high probability numbers in that same game fail to roll at all yet low probability numbers dominate. [And "the dice work" / "that's how randomness works" is the response...]

24 Mar, '20
Alex Bruski

I wrote a new dice class - Upon generating 40 or so files with 100 rolls each and analyzing them all, there is still a significant amount of error in the distribution just because of the addition of two randomly generated dice rolls. It is a little better than what was being achieved before, but it still is not what I would like it to be. I will work on it some more to find a way to get a better distribution without making it easy to predict the next roll result.

24 Mar, '20
Alex Bruski

I have a new method of generating two dice rolls and insuring that the rolls are not outliers on the standard dice distribution. I have tested this method thoroughly, and it really does a nice job for any reasonable number of rolls that would be used in a game. I create an array with the expected percentages for each roll (2&12-1/36, 3&11-2/36, 4&10-3/36, 5&9-4/36, 6&8-5/36, 7-6/36) then I generate two die rolls and add them. I check the % of that roll against array and re-roll if it is high.

24 Mar, '20
Alex Bruski

The roll is only used in the game if it's percentage of occurrence is at or below the expected probability of that number. Example: if on the 35th roll, die one is 5 and die two is 1, and a six has been rolled 4 times in the last 34 rolls, then the die rolls of 5 and 1 are used in the game. If the 36th roll comes up as 3 and 3, that roll would be rejected and re-rolled, as the number six has now been rolled 5 out of 36 times. 6/36 is greater than the expected 5/36 and thus rejected for use.

25 Mar, '20
Dil

I had a game where a 6 was rolled four times. I know that it is normal distribution, but please check the algorithm for creating the 6 combination for the mean or standard deviation of the distribution.

27 Mar, '20
abc Merged

https://colonist.io/#AoKq
Out of 75 turns in this game, the dice rolled six 19 times, eight 2 times and ten 3 times. Two and Twelve were rolled 5 and 4 times respectively, both more than twice of eight. But hey the dice is random.

29 Mar, '20
Zyaton

MikeIsMyIke, you did your math wrong. The chance of rolling 3 in a row is much higher than that. The probability of rolling 3 in a row of any given dice sum in a given game is somewhere near 57%, so it actually should happen every other game on average.

Here's the probability of getting 3 7s in a row somewhere in 50 rolls: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=probability+of+streak+of+3+successes+out+of+50+trials+with+p%3D6%2F36
It's 17%.

29 Mar, '20
Zyaton

Just about every programming language has a good pseudo-random number generator. Implementing this is fantastically easy, and the programmers would have to do work to mess this up.

Just post the one line of code they use to do the dice rolls, everyone can see that it's obviously correct, and close this as will not implement.

It's well documented that humans will see patterns in randomness no matter what, and humans are really bad at understanding randomness.

30 Mar, '20
Alex Bruski Merged

When combining two random 6-sided dice by adding their values to get the dice roll, a lot of variation enters into the roll distribution. If you check it over 400 or more rolls it is very close to the proper distribution. When under 100 rolls are evaluated, the distribution will have a lot of variation. I have coded a fix for this problem and submitted it to the developers of the game, but it has not been implemented yet.
continued...

30 Mar, '20
Alex Bruski Merged

It consists of 13 lines of code that checks the frequency of the current roll against the normal distribution of expected dice rolls and only uses the roll if it falls within that distribution. If the dice roll would be outside of the expected distribution, it just re-rolls, then checks again. When it finds a roll that does fall within the distribution frequency, then it uses that roll and records it in the current roll frequency statistics.

30 Mar, '20
Ivan

I have had perhaps 10 games in a row where tens or 11s have been thrown more than twice as often than 7s and 8s.
If this will not be fixed i think people will stop playing.

02 Apr, '20
Tanweer Singh

Yup agreed, there is definitely something up with the algorithm. 6 is supposed to be one of the most common numbers but I'm consistently seeing that it hardly gets rolled. I've just stopped building near 6s..

02 Apr, '20
Stuti B

The dice roll needs to be fixed. 6 and 8s come way lesser than they should in every game. This is after playing 15-20 games. We all as a group have been noticing very odd behavior from the dice rolls. Please try and fix or introduce event cards asap. This really affects the game experience. Most games seem too unfair and biased and not at all according to the probability.

03 Apr, '20
Matias

Sorry, but I disagree with the premise the the rng isn't working appropriately. I've played on this site for a year and I've never thought that the dice wasn't random. What I believe people don't like is the fact that it's random. They want the dice to be predictable. There is a variable to the real boardgame where the dice is replaced by number cards. With that system you always know the amount of each number will be drawn just not exactly when. Instead of suggestion that the dice shouldn't be

03 Apr, '20
Matias

The dice alternative is called Catan: Event cards and introduces a deck of 36 cards one for each dice combination. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/20038/catan-event-cards

03 Apr, '20
Matias

The alternative reduces the luck aspect of the game. You can suggest that the devs add that to the site if you don't like luck of the dice. But I personally think that it is what makes Catan interesting.

04 Apr, '20
Alex Bruski

I would like to see the distribution controlled dice routine tried out on the test site. I have already written the code, it is under 15 lines. Let's give it a try and see what people think... it is really easy to go back to what it is now, if people don't like the result. Let's try it and see what people think. What is there to lose, satisfied gaming is what is to gain!

05 Apr, '20
Kyrinae

We pretty much exclusively play this game in real life (catan) and I have only been playing on Colonist since the Covid stuff. Over the course of 12+ real life games with 5-6 people, we have rolled a 7 less than 20 times. Total.
Just this ONE last game on Colonist with 3 people and a bot, 7 was rolled 20 times. The previous game 13 times. Out of the 7+ games on Colonist, every game has had OVER 10 7's.
Please either fix the 7's or make a no 7's option, its just depressing at this point.

05 Apr, '20
Sergio

7 is rolled much more often than other numbers, everytime

05 Apr, '20
Ela

i will stop playing colonist.io just because of 7s. in every 3-4 terms, its 7. it can not be random because after any game when i look at the statistics, its 7 that the most diced number. i dont believe the algorithm works fine.

05 Apr, '20
Alex Bruski

Seven should be the most rolled number. **But**
7 should only roll around 6 times every 36 rolls.
6 & 8 should only roll around 5 times every 36 rolls.
5 & 9 should only roll around 4 times every 36 rolls.
4 &10 should only roll around 3 times every 36 rolls.
3 &11 should only roll around 2 times every 36 rolls.
2 &12 should only roll around 1 time every 36 rolls.
Check the dice statistics after each game. The distribution of numbers is all over the place.

07 Apr, '20
sikander Merged

There are numbers which are absurdly rolled over and over and over and over again in every game I've played.

10 Apr, '20
Alex Bruski

I propose that *Fun Mode* gets multiple dice options. Then the *purists* who like their wonky random only dice rolls can have them, and those of us who want a proper distribution of dice rolls can have what we want as well. Any game type *should* be able to be played in the Fun Mode Section. I can not see why anyone would object to this proposal???

11 Apr, '20
tog

If you do want to improve the randomness, maybe consider replacing math.random() with Alea: https://github.com/nquinlan/better-random-numbers-for-javascript-mirror.

14 Apr, '20
Andrii

Come on, leave it as is! It's like in real life now, I love it.

18 Apr, '20
Demiculus Admin

https://prnt.sc/s1km46

19 Apr, '20
Stroom

No need to change this. I guess it is OK to have it as an option but it should never be the default. If players want a less RNG based game, there are hundreds of board games out there.

19 Apr, '20
Sudipta Nayak

There's no harm in having options for multiple types of randomness. After all there will always be a choice of player involved in their game. Since it is easy to implement, why not try it?

19 Apr, '20
timi

i think it's good the way it is. each game the distribution will not really be normal. but if you add up over all the games it is normal.

better solution is to provide an option so people can pick dice rolls OR 36-card deck when they play

24 Apr, '20
chevydad

People whining about numbers not appearing often enough or too often are idiots. The game very, very obviously works exactly like real life. The dice tend to have more 7s, then more 6s and 8s, etc. as you go down the line. There are individual games with more 4s or 10s or 5s or whatever than "normal" because that's how randomness works. That is how the real life game works. People are just angry they lost because they're stupid and do not understand randomness or probabilities.

24 Apr, '20
Sudipta Nayak

Sometimes the outcome of a game seems to depend too much on luck. To reduce impact of luck, controlled randomness is a good option.

25 Apr, '20
Waffles

Did you know that, in REAL LIFE, in over 60% of games, at least one number will come up at least 50% more often? And in around 60% of games, at least one number will come up at most 50% less often? So if you're seeing a number come up more or less often that what you're expecting... then that's REAL LIFE. If you rarely saw that, then that wouldn't be random.

25 Apr, '20
Alex Bruski

I don't understand why those that don't want anything to change are so against having optional dice rolling routines that the rest of us can choose to use!

Standard Random Dice, Card Stack, Distribution Controlled Dice, and Single 11 sided die.

26 Apr, '20
Sebastian B

I just submitted a feature request for "36 cards" mode. See and upvote here: https://colonist.featureupvote.com/suggestions/90625/feature-adjusted-dice

27 Apr, '20
Demiculus Admin

"Improve the dice rolls" (suggested by sikander on 2020-04-07), including upvotes (2) and comments (0), was merged into this suggestion.

30 Apr, '20
Drqlazar

Usually, games development companies seek profit. Usually, bigger profit requires many users. To gain more users on the platform, they analyze user's behavior. Given the gaussian function, most of the users have average skills. Average player is predictable. To engage more users, the companies improve the game for average players. It is reasonable, depending on how average player plays, that the game could be rigged.

01 May, '20
Kyle

Certain numbers are SUPPOSED to come up more then others. That's what the dots are for. And the entire point of the die is that is doesn't follow exactly that pattern, and is random.

7 is supposed to be rolled way more then the other numbers. That's because there are more combinations of dice that make 7 then there are dice that make 12

02 May, '20
Alex Bruski

Klause wrote the game to use the two dice with a random probability. People complained about the fact that the distribution of the dice don't follow the designed expectation of the distribution of resources, so Klause make the card stack. People like the card stack distribution, but don't like the ease of which a player can guess the next dice roll. Klause is dealing with a board game without the options that are available in a programmed game.

02 May, '20
Alex Bruski

My dice distribution controlled dice routine gives the distribution of the card stack and the un-predictability of the next roll value which you get with standard dice. It is the best of the two methods used in the board game combined into one dice rolling routine. I want it to be an option.

Standard random dice (default), and optional: card stack, distribution controlled dice, and 11 sided die (equal resource production).
Let people use the dice type they want!

03 May, '20
timi Merged

there are probably tens of thousands of games played every day
so not that surprising this could happen to one person
i have had games with almost no 6s or 8s rolled and many 3s and 4s.
i have had games with few 4s, 6s, 8s, 10s and may 5s, 7s, 9s.
some games with lots of 6s and 8s and almost no 7s
and other games where the distribution is more normal
seems pretty random, you would expect the distribution to vary

also this complaint has already been posted like 100 times

04 May, '20
Sasha Wilde Admin

"Dice Roll Randomness is Statistically Impossible" (suggested by Jon on 2020-04-29), including upvotes (1) and comments (2), was merged into this suggestion.

05 May, '20
Waddlyatcha

What I find is the dice rolls really favour the bots, which I play again most often, because I play during work breaks and lunch and want fast 10-minute games. If the bot and I are both on a 6, the 6 rarely gets rolled; however, if the bot is on an 8 and I'm not, the 8 gets rolled constantly. I see this pattern in pretty much every single game. Every dice roll, cards are shooting across the screen, straight into the bot's virtual pockets. Pattern happens with all the time, always favouring bots.

06 May, '20
Tito Merged

It's almost funny - my friends play colonist.io very often. It now seems almost predictable that if you place a robber, regardless of number, the very next roll seems to have a comically high chance of being rolled.

If this isn't somehow written in as a emotion-producing feature (which is the result;D )... I am amazed at the odds.

If this was intentional (to somehow weight it in that favor) - please remove :D

07 May, '20
Graylling

I've kept track of the dice rolls over 105 games played. While the percentages vary game to game, overall there is a slight bias in favor of the higher numbers.
Total # rolls over 105 games - 7165
# % of rolls
2 - 2.94
3 - 5.51
4 - 8.54
5 - 10.70
6 - 13.82
7 - 16.51
8 - 14.12
9 - 11.25
10 - 8.54
11 - 5.44
12 - 2.61

10 May, '20
Sammy

So clearly the dice are using proper RNG and people don't understand statistics (and some don't understand the effect of 2 dice). But as a suggestion of a "less random" solution. Provide an option for dice card decks, but let people pick the number of cards to use. e.g 36/72/108 card decks, allowing people to choose how random they want a game.

360 cards, for example, would reduce randomness but not make it fully predictable.

10 May, '20
sai

The same number being rolled again and again is very annoying. It makes users to lose interest in the game.