Improve the fair dice (random dice) mechanics

21 votes

It is blatantly obvious for any player that plays a lot of game in this website that there is a built in biased dice written in the game code especially in the bot mode. Try improving the intelligence of bots rather than tampering with the dice in favor of the bots to make it a fair game. Dice randomization code needs to be improved.

Not planned Suggested by: Nighthawk (31 Mar, '22) • Upvoted: 09 Apr • Comments: 15

Comments: 15

31 Mar, '22
JUAN Admin
The dice are random and work exactly the same in all game modes. The is no biased dice code to favor bots, whatsoever.
Bots place their initial settlements on the highest producing spots available. They also block and steal from the player who has more vps. Until we release bot difficulty levels, I recommend keeping these tips in mind while playing against bots. Try to get at least one of your settlements in an 6 or an 8, and don't take the lead too early in the game.
17 Apr, '22
Nighthawk
Well, "what does it mean to be truely random?" is a very complex topic in math. I suggest to look onto your code before ignoring the suggestions asking for improvements in fair dice and randomization code. I have personally analyzed over 200 games in bot mode in your website and the results shows that your dice code is biased in bot mode both in timing of certain dice rolls and the resource placement that offer the best chance for bots. Rather than dissmising and answering to such a complex topic such as "Randomization" with no expertise and I dare to say ignorance, I would suggest to talk to people that understand coding and that can help to improve the player experience in your website.
1
29 Apr, '22
Player33
All they have to do (in my opinion) is to play the game themselves. Maybe then they will understand what we go through. I have stopped playing bot games altogether because its an extremely unpleasant experience.
1
01 May, '22
Nighthawk
I have analyzed the games in bot mode for many online games for my school project and I can say that there is nothing random about their code when it comes to dice rolls. Acoording to my analytics, Colonist has the worst dice stats when it comes to randomization. I have not seen their code because they do not make it open source, but if they do I know for a fact that we can see all the conditions that dictate the next dice roll which will show there is nothing random about it. I do not even believe the resource steals are random.
1
01 May, '22
A.E.
Hi NightHawk,
I have analyzed their code, and have pointed out some issues, and have turned in my own tests to help@colonist.io . You can see here ( https://colonist.featureupvote.com/suggestions/286023/fix-dice-and-stop-bots-from-unfair-advantage ).

From an application development perspective: project management, cost considerations, and the fact they already spent time initially previously analyzing - the only thing that is going to get them to take notice at this point is: 1) if a senior developer on the team recognizes the issue; or 2) if everyone goes through and upvotes every one of these tickets that consistently are focusing on the random dice algorithm (and as a side issue, tickets asking them to review their code for unintended code that may favor bots in certain circumstances).

So, if you know of others, you need to direct them at these tickets (this ticket, and others like it) and upvote them - that is our best chance for them to reopen this issue.
03 May, '22
Player33
I am genuinely shocked. Why are they not listening to so many of us?
05 May, '22
Nighthawk
Me and my buddy did a test as a joke to try to predict before each bot game which number is going to roll more than what can be expected with a balanced dice stat and we were right in 11 out of 13 games. If you are advance player try doing this in your own games just by identifying the most crucial resourses and you might convince yourself that you are clairvoyant or psychic.
You can even try guessing when 7 is going to roll in the middle of the game. I will tell you: a lot of times when you have more than 7 cards in your hand or you just bloked a necessary resource for the bot, magically 7 rolls in the next roll. Of course non of us is clairvoyant. These are all well known issues of a low quality random generator.
Of course developers know why issues like this exist. If they are competent they know the issues with "math.random". They should know the limitations and arguments about it's degenerate behavior that can be translated by users as utterly broken and predictable.
1
05 May, '22
Player33
Yeah when I first started playing on colonist, I was not happy with the single player. But after playing a few games I could well understand how the bots and dice works (against you of course), and started easily predicting how the game will play out. But the problem is sometimes it gets too ridiculous. I've had games where I was robbed 20+ times and few other games where 2s,3s,11s and 12s have rolled more than 8s and 6s just because (coincidentally?!) bots did not have settlements on those numbers, weird trading among bots, etc.
07 May, '22
Nighthawk
Don't even start me on trading among bots. I have had games where a bot player built 4 cities without even having a single settlement on the wheat. The other bots were just giving him all the wheat they generated like there is no tomorrow. So much for no wheat equals defeat, but when it comes to you they don't trade you a single resource even if you offer them 3 cards.
09 May, '22
Jeff
I’d love to see your analysis.
10 May, '22
Player33
Just played a game where a bot received 143 resources, while I got only 59!(other bots had 77 and 73). I did win, but it was pretty ridiculous given that I had settlements in 8,9,5,10 hexes, but 6 rolled 22 times and 3 rolled 10 Times XD. its a joke honestly. I just play to laugh at this stupidity XD.
14 May, '22
Nighthawk
I still yet to see a single game where I produce more resources than all the other bots. I would love to see their stats for resource production in bot games. Especially if you analyze the resource production in the start of the game it is mind buggling how they still have the audacity to claim everything is super- duper random, no bias "whatsoever". Gimme a break!
15 May, '22
Player33
I couldnt agree more. XD
27 May, '22
Joey Trib
This is ridiculous!
23 Sep, '23
Robert
I have played over 2500 games with bots. Over time and with newer updates here is what I am seeing: let's say myself and the three bots are each at 3. Let's say I move to 5 on my turn. What is very likely to happen now is that each of the bots will roll a 7. Three 7s in a roll, exactly right after I take a lead. Then also my numbers are less likely to roll until the bots catch up. The bots definitely control the dice rolls. The whole dice system is making this an unplayable game. I can only win by staying behind the bots throughout most of the game then moving to win all on one turn. All three bots coordinate to some degree as well. If one bot is commandingly ahead, each of the other bots move robber to attack him, on a hex that I am on as well. Another thing that is happening beyond all statistical possibility is that the bots move robber on a number of mine that then immediately rolls. They knew in advance what was about to be rolled.
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